Lovecraft Country follows Atticus Black as he joins up with his friend Letitia and his Uncle George to embark on a road trip across 1950s Jim Crow America in search of his missing father. This begins a struggle to survive and overcome both the racist terrors of white America and the terrifying monsters that could be ripped from a Lovecraft paperback.
Never the less I guess I could ask more questions to understand why it makes people feel or react the way that some people do.
I do believe that's pretty much always a good thing to try. If nothing else, there's still enough time to judge later.
cruzin_4fun said:
Now I'm not sure how ubiquitous the issue is when there are tons of American shows that never touch on race or racism or these cultural issues.
Not sure myself. Personally, I don't mind. A lot of people don't like being expected to sympathize with something they believe doesn't concern them, though.
cruzin_4fun said:
I appreciate the diolog, I hope I didn't come across as if I believe that every white person was a racist or hold negative views of people of color. To the contrary.
Same here, and no, that was not the impression you made. Again, for me it was just an attempt to make a simplified view of a situation less simple; that seems to have worked. Thank you for that.
You're quite welcome!
by some_one posted 4 years ago
cruzin_4fun said:
Never the less I guess I could ask more questions to understand why it makes people feel or react the way that some people do.
I do believe that's pretty much always a good thing to try. If nothing else, there's still enough time to judge later.
cruzin_4fun said:
Now I'm not sure how ubiquitous the issue is when there are tons of American shows that never touch on race or racism or these cultural issues.
Not sure myself. Personally, I don't mind. A lot of people don't like being expected to sympathize with something they believe doesn't concern them, though.
cruzin_4fun said:
I appreciate the diolog, I hope I didn't come across as if I believe that every white person was a racist or hold negative views of people of color. To the contrary.
Same here, and no, that was not the impression you made. Again, for me it was just an attempt to make a simplified view of a situation less simple; that seems to have worked. Thank you for that.
by cruzin_4fun posted 4 years ago
some_one said:
Wow, I had to think alot about what you said and I tried really hard to understand some of your points.
Thank you. That alone means a lot already.
cruzin_4fun said:
I only see this type of annoyance when it comes to issues of color. I never hear anyone saying "I'm so tired of all these period pieces and those commoners complaining about autocracies" or "I'm real tired about watching shows about the Irish and the scotch trying to gain their independence. Or any other shows or movies that cover European history.
I think it should be noted that these are usually contained to their own shows, which are often explicitly about those issues. Systematic racism in the US, however, is still such a big issue that it bleeds into anything the culture creates, therefore being a likely element in any american movie or tv show. It's that ubiquity that seems to set some people off.
cruzin_4fun said:
I always find it funny how white people get to say some of the most bigoted, ignorant and racist things and then turn themselves into the victim because someone calls them a racist; which pushing them to become a racist. Shame on me for not understanding their struggle.
I can fully appreciate the critique of America TV and of shows surrounding America's racial history. What I do not appreciate is someone in that critique belittling, degrading or maligning those being discriminated against.
Oh, absolutely. Definitely not trying to justify it. I can only imagine how frustrating this must get over time.
The reason I bring stuff like that up is not so anyone can relate to and tolerate it; rather, it's the assumption that understanding where someone is coming from makes it easier to change their mind.
Doing that really shouldn't be neccessary for something like this anymore, but trying is still better than the alternative.
Regardless of that, the main aspect of what I was originally trying to say here does not apply to any white supremacists or even baseline racists in the US.
What I was trying to convey was that g371 does not share a cultural context with them.
For us, here, they are usually not "white people". They are merely "crazy Americans", just as you are American first and black second. If you lump people abroad in with them, you only end up making the problem even more about race, which hurts everyone even more in the long run.
Again, I am not saying any ball should be in your field here. It really should not; but this one is.
cruzin_4fun said:
And how the heck do a show in the period of America 1980s- and pior and not have it touch racial issues?
Agreed.
I appreciate the diolog, I hope I didn't come across as if I believe that every white person was a racist or hold negative views of people of color. To the contrary.
Now I'm not sure how ubiquitous the issue is when there are tons of American shows that never touch on race or racism or these cultural issues.
Never the less I guess I could ask more questions to understand why it makes people feel or react the way that some people do.
by some_one posted 4 years ago
cruzin_4fun said:
Wow, I had to think alot about what you said and I tried really hard to understand some of your points.
Thank you. That alone means a lot already.
cruzin_4fun said:
I only see this type of annoyance when it comes to issues of color. I never hear anyone saying "I'm so tired of all these period pieces and those commoners complaining about autocracies" or "I'm real tired about watching shows about the Irish and the scotch trying to gain their independence. Or any other shows or movies that cover European history.
I think it should be noted that these are usually contained to their own shows, which are often explicitly about those issues. Systematic racism in the US, however, is still such a big issue that it bleeds into anything the culture creates, therefore being a likely element in any american movie or tv show. It's that ubiquity that seems to set some people off.
cruzin_4fun said:
I always find it funny how white people get to say some of the most bigoted, ignorant and racist things and then turn themselves into the victim because someone calls them a racist; which pushing them to become a racist. Shame on me for not understanding their struggle.
I can fully appreciate the critique of America TV and of shows surrounding America's racial history. What I do not appreciate is someone in that critique belittling, degrading or maligning those being discriminated against.
Oh, absolutely. Definitely not trying to justify it. I can only imagine how frustrating this must get over time.
The reason I bring stuff like that up is not so anyone can relate to and tolerate it; rather, it's the assumption that understanding where someone is coming from makes it easier to change their mind.
Doing that really shouldn't be neccessary for something like this anymore, but trying is still better than the alternative.
Regardless of that, the main aspect of what I was originally trying to say here does not apply to any white supremacists or even baseline racists in the US.
What I was trying to convey was that g371 does not share a cultural context with them.
For us, here, they are usually not "white people". They are merely "crazy Americans", just as you are American first and black second. If you lump people abroad in with them, you only end up making the problem even more about race, which hurts everyone even more in the long run.
Again, I am not saying any ball should be in your field here. It really should not; but this one is.
cruzin_4fun said:
And how the heck do a show in the period of America 1980s- and pior and not have it touch racial issues?
Agreed.
by graybags posted 4 years ago
vapdne said:
Re the Tulsa massacre, I don't mean to blow my own trumpet, or maybe I do, but I was fully aware of it. And I was born in the UK in 1974 to a family in rural Somerset who knew very little about anything and voted Tory.
Prove to me they don't exist then :) Ghost and demons, not Americans!
Prove to me they do ;)
Tha'ts my point, nobody can either way, so you can't have a go at what people believe if there isn't definitive proof either way. Unlike flat earthers :)
by vapdne posted 4 years ago
graybags said:
Re the Tulsa massacre, I don't mean to blow my own trumpet, or maybe I do, but I was fully aware of it. And I was born in the UK in 1974 to a family in rural Somerset who knew very little about anything and voted Tory.
Prove to me they don't exist then :) Ghost and demons, not Americans!
Prove to me they do ;)
by vapdne posted 4 years ago
lighton said:
Re the Tulsa massacre, I don't mean to blow my own trumpet, or maybe I do, but I was fully aware of it. And I was born in the UK in 1974 to a family in rural Somerset who knew very little about anything and voted Tory.
Yeah I've seen data on these areas. In Western Europe it can vary a lot with countries with significant Catholic populations (most notably Republic of Ireland, Italy, Spain) having a much larger group of people believing in such things than others. Germany leads the way in atheists and UK isn't far behind.
by graybags posted 4 years ago
lighton said:
Re the Tulsa massacre, I don't mean to blow my own trumpet, or maybe I do, but I was fully aware of it. And I was born in the UK in 1974 to a family in rural Somerset who knew very little about anything and voted Tory.
Prove to me they don't exist then :) Ghost and demons, not Americans!
by cruzin_4fun posted 4 years ago
some_one said:
Glad to hear it means something to somebody as it is. It wasn't primarily supposed to. Our minds tend to simplify reality over time and, if we let it, beyond recognition. The only good way to stay sharp like that, really, is to be disagreed with often and I'm just hoping to do my part in that.
cruzin_4fun said:
The fact that this gentleman referred to black people as "Blackies" in a later post speaks to his character and his true sentiments towards black people. His comments were nothing more than racism attempting to masquerade as civil discourse.
Please let me try to do the same for you.
There are many forms of racism. The type you see in the US is one that is rooted in history and reinforced by ignorance and tribalism.
The type of racism you see with us Europeans, while still racism, works somewhat differently. It is often purely made of ignorance. Most countries here are still predominantly white and the notable minorities that do exist usually have both an actual cultural background (point of origin, tradition, etc.) and are also mostly somewhat recent - likely from the 20th century. As a black man you likely would experience racism here, but merely as other, not as black.
That being said, a lot of people here do not fully understand how bad it can still be in the US sometimes, or at least don't care about something happening all the way over there. The latter, maybe also the former, seemed to be the case here.
What people here do see is that this particular issue is getting a lot of attention. Attention is maybe the most primal of currencies - you can even pay infants with it. It can often matter to people where it goes.
Since most grade A television is still made in the US and later exported, we get a lot of content that pays attention to your primary issues. This can get very annoying for some of us. Giving it even more attention can prompt a strong emotional reaction in some.
The issue at hand there is not racism per se - it's mostly just that calling this out and seeming like a racist is often easier than playing along and seeing more and more of it. After a while, it can become a habit.
If the habit doesn't get a better outlet, it can lead to identifying with actual racists more and more over time. If people keep calling you a racist, you might eventually start being proud of it.
Again, it works somewhat differently in the US. Many of the latter concepts are often still involved, though.
Discourse does not need to be civil. It only needs to continue. This whole societal system only works if we all keep working towards a point where everyone can see everyone else's point of view, even if it seems futile.
cruzin_4fun said:
Hey, no need to make fun of Americans! Lol
Come on, you know there's always a need to make fun of Americans. :)
LOL, fine make fun away! We did have Trump for 4yr!
Wow, I had to think alot about what you said and I tried really hard to understand some of your points. Like the attention of black issues on TV. I can't see where American TV is flooded with black plight to be so overwhelming it's an annoyance.
I only see this type of annoyance when it comes to issues of color. I never hear anyone saying "I'm so tired of all these period pieces and those commoners complaining about autocracies" or "I'm real tired about watching shows about the Irish and the scotch trying to gain their independence. Or any other shows or movies that cover European history.
I always find it funny how white people get to say some of the most bigoted, ignorant and racist things and then turn themselves into the victim because someone calls them a racist; which pushing them to become a racist. Shame on me for not understanding their struggle.
I can fully appreciate the critique of America TV and of shows surrounding America's racial history. What I do not appreciate is someone in that critique belittling, degrading or maligning those being discriminated against.
And how the heck do a show in the period of America 1980s- and pior and not have it touch racial issues? Ignore black people forget it happened?
--------------------------------------------
Long quote hidden in spoiler to keep readability.
-Daemonius
by some_one posted 4 years ago
cruzin_4fun said:
Glad to hear it means something to somebody as it is. It wasn't primarily supposed to. Our minds tend to simplify reality over time and, if we let it, beyond recognition. The only good way to stay sharp like that, really, is to be disagreed with often and I'm just hoping to do my part in that.
cruzin_4fun said:
The fact that this gentleman referred to black people as "Blackies" in a later post speaks to his character and his true sentiments towards black people. His comments were nothing more than racism attempting to masquerade as civil discourse.
Please let me try to do the same for you.
There are many forms of racism. The type you see in the US is one that is rooted in history and reinforced by ignorance and tribalism.
The type of racism you see with us Europeans, while still racism, works somewhat differently. It is often purely made of ignorance. Most countries here are still predominantly white and the notable minorities that do exist usually have both an actual cultural background (point of origin, tradition, etc.) and are also mostly somewhat recent - likely from the 20th century. As a black man you likely would experience racism here, but merely as other, not as black.
That being said, a lot of people here do not fully understand how bad it can still be in the US sometimes, or at least don't care about something happening all the way over there. The latter, maybe also the former, seemed to be the case here.
What people here do see is that this particular issue is getting a lot of attention. Attention is maybe the most primal of currencies - you can even pay infants with it. It can often matter to people where it goes.
Since most grade A television is still made in the US and later exported, we get a lot of content that pays attention to your primary issues. This can get very annoying for some of us. Giving it even more attention can prompt a strong emotional reaction in some.
The issue at hand there is not racism per se - it's mostly just that calling this out and seeming like a racist is often easier than playing along and seeing more and more of it. After a while, it can become a habit.
If the habit doesn't get a better outlet, it can lead to identifying with actual racists more and more over time. If people keep calling you a racist, you might eventually start being proud of it.
Again, it works somewhat differently in the US. Many of the latter concepts are often still involved, though.
Discourse does not need to be civil. It only needs to continue. This whole societal system only works if we all keep working towards a point where everyone can see everyone else's point of view, even if it seems futile.
cruzin_4fun said:
Hey, no need to make fun of Americans! Lol
Come on, you know there's always a need to make fun of Americans. :)
Follow
Never the less I guess I could ask more questions to understand why it makes people feel or react the way that some people do.
I do believe that's pretty much always a good thing to try. If nothing else, there's still enough time to judge later.
Now I'm not sure how ubiquitous the issue is when there are tons of American shows that never touch on race or racism or these cultural issues.
Not sure myself. Personally, I don't mind. A lot of people don't like being expected to sympathize with something they believe doesn't concern them, though.
I appreciate the diolog, I hope I didn't come across as if I believe that every white person was a racist or hold negative views of people of color. To the contrary.
Same here, and no, that was not the impression you made. Again, for me it was just an attempt to make a simplified view of a situation less simple; that seems to have worked. Thank you for that.
You're quite welcome!
Never the less I guess I could ask more questions to understand why it makes people feel or react the way that some people do.
I do believe that's pretty much always a good thing to try. If nothing else, there's still enough time to judge later.
Now I'm not sure how ubiquitous the issue is when there are tons of American shows that never touch on race or racism or these cultural issues.
Not sure myself. Personally, I don't mind. A lot of people don't like being expected to sympathize with something they believe doesn't concern them, though.
I appreciate the diolog, I hope I didn't come across as if I believe that every white person was a racist or hold negative views of people of color. To the contrary.
Same here, and no, that was not the impression you made. Again, for me it was just an attempt to make a simplified view of a situation less simple; that seems to have worked. Thank you for that.
Wow, I had to think alot about what you said and I tried really hard to understand some of your points.
Thank you. That alone means a lot already.
I only see this type of annoyance when it comes to issues of color. I never hear anyone saying "I'm so tired of all these period pieces and those commoners complaining about autocracies" or "I'm real tired about watching shows about the Irish and the scotch trying to gain their independence. Or any other shows or movies that cover European history.
I think it should be noted that these are usually contained to their own shows, which are often explicitly about those issues. Systematic racism in the US, however, is still such a big issue that it bleeds into anything the culture creates, therefore being a likely element in any american movie or tv show. It's that ubiquity that seems to set some people off.
I always find it funny how white people get to say some of the most bigoted, ignorant and racist things and then turn themselves into the victim because someone calls them a racist; which pushing them to become a racist. Shame on me for not understanding their struggle.
I can fully appreciate the critique of America TV and of shows surrounding America's racial history. What I do not appreciate is someone in that critique belittling, degrading or maligning those being discriminated against.
Oh, absolutely. Definitely not trying to justify it. I can only imagine how frustrating this must get over time.
The reason I bring stuff like that up is not so anyone can relate to and tolerate it; rather, it's the assumption that understanding where someone is coming from makes it easier to change their mind.
Doing that really shouldn't be neccessary for something like this anymore, but trying is still better than the alternative.
Regardless of that, the main aspect of what I was originally trying to say here does not apply to any white supremacists or even baseline racists in the US.
What I was trying to convey was that g371 does not share a cultural context with them.
For us, here, they are usually not "white people". They are merely "crazy Americans", just as you are American first and black second. If you lump people abroad in with them, you only end up making the problem even more about race, which hurts everyone even more in the long run.
Again, I am not saying any ball should be in your field here. It really should not; but this one is.
And how the heck do a show in the period of America 1980s- and pior and not have it touch racial issues?
Agreed.
I appreciate the diolog, I hope I didn't come across as if I believe that every white person was a racist or hold negative views of people of color. To the contrary.
Now I'm not sure how ubiquitous the issue is when there are tons of American shows that never touch on race or racism or these cultural issues.
Never the less I guess I could ask more questions to understand why it makes people feel or react the way that some people do.
Wow, I had to think alot about what you said and I tried really hard to understand some of your points.
Thank you. That alone means a lot already.
I only see this type of annoyance when it comes to issues of color. I never hear anyone saying "I'm so tired of all these period pieces and those commoners complaining about autocracies" or "I'm real tired about watching shows about the Irish and the scotch trying to gain their independence. Or any other shows or movies that cover European history.
I think it should be noted that these are usually contained to their own shows, which are often explicitly about those issues. Systematic racism in the US, however, is still such a big issue that it bleeds into anything the culture creates, therefore being a likely element in any american movie or tv show. It's that ubiquity that seems to set some people off.
I always find it funny how white people get to say some of the most bigoted, ignorant and racist things and then turn themselves into the victim because someone calls them a racist; which pushing them to become a racist. Shame on me for not understanding their struggle.
I can fully appreciate the critique of America TV and of shows surrounding America's racial history. What I do not appreciate is someone in that critique belittling, degrading or maligning those being discriminated against.
Oh, absolutely. Definitely not trying to justify it. I can only imagine how frustrating this must get over time.
The reason I bring stuff like that up is not so anyone can relate to and tolerate it; rather, it's the assumption that understanding where someone is coming from makes it easier to change their mind.
Doing that really shouldn't be neccessary for something like this anymore, but trying is still better than the alternative.
Regardless of that, the main aspect of what I was originally trying to say here does not apply to any white supremacists or even baseline racists in the US.
What I was trying to convey was that g371 does not share a cultural context with them.
For us, here, they are usually not "white people". They are merely "crazy Americans", just as you are American first and black second. If you lump people abroad in with them, you only end up making the problem even more about race, which hurts everyone even more in the long run.
Again, I am not saying any ball should be in your field here. It really should not; but this one is.
And how the heck do a show in the period of America 1980s- and pior and not have it touch racial issues?
Agreed.
That means you know more about it than most. :)
Weird fact of the day: 45% of Americans believe that ghosts and demons exist.
Prove to me they don't exist then :) Ghost and demons, not Americans!
Prove to me they do ;)
Tha'ts my point, nobody can either way, so you can't have a go at what people believe if there isn't definitive proof either way. Unlike flat earthers :)
That means you know more about it than most. :)
Weird fact of the day: 45% of Americans believe that ghosts and demons exist.
Prove to me they don't exist then :) Ghost and demons, not Americans!
Prove to me they do ;)
That means you know more about it than most. :)
Weird fact of the day: 45% of Americans believe that ghosts and demons exist.
Yeah I've seen data on these areas. In Western Europe it can vary a lot with countries with significant Catholic populations (most notably Republic of Ireland, Italy, Spain) having a much larger group of people believing in such things than others. Germany leads the way in atheists and UK isn't far behind.
That means you know more about it than most. :)
Weird fact of the day: 45% of Americans believe that ghosts and demons exist.
Prove to me they don't exist then :) Ghost and demons, not Americans!
Glad to hear it means something to somebody as it is. It wasn't primarily supposed to. Our minds tend to simplify reality over time and, if we let it, beyond recognition. The only good way to stay sharp like that, really, is to be disagreed with often and I'm just hoping to do my part in that.
The fact that this gentleman referred to black people as "Blackies" in a later post speaks to his character and his true sentiments towards black people. His comments were nothing more than racism attempting to masquerade as civil discourse.
Please let me try to do the same for you.
There are many forms of racism. The type you see in the US is one that is rooted in history and reinforced by ignorance and tribalism.
The type of racism you see with us Europeans, while still racism, works somewhat differently. It is often purely made of ignorance. Most countries here are still predominantly white and the notable minorities that do exist usually have both an actual cultural background (point of origin, tradition, etc.) and are also mostly somewhat recent - likely from the 20th century. As a black man you likely would experience racism here, but merely as other, not as black.
That being said, a lot of people here do not fully understand how bad it can still be in the US sometimes, or at least don't care about something happening all the way over there. The latter, maybe also the former, seemed to be the case here.
What people here do see is that this particular issue is getting a lot of attention. Attention is maybe the most primal of currencies - you can even pay infants with it. It can often matter to people where it goes.
Since most grade A television is still made in the US and later exported, we get a lot of content that pays attention to your primary issues. This can get very annoying for some of us. Giving it even more attention can prompt a strong emotional reaction in some.
The issue at hand there is not racism per se - it's mostly just that calling this out and seeming like a racist is often easier than playing along and seeing more and more of it. After a while, it can become a habit.
If the habit doesn't get a better outlet, it can lead to identifying with actual racists more and more over time. If people keep calling you a racist, you might eventually start being proud of it.
Again, it works somewhat differently in the US. Many of the latter concepts are often still involved, though.
Discourse does not need to be civil. It only needs to continue. This whole societal system only works if we all keep working towards a point where everyone can see everyone else's point of view, even if it seems futile.
Come on, you know there's always a need to make fun of Americans. :)
LOL, fine make fun away! We did have Trump for 4yr!
Wow, I had to think alot about what you said and I tried really hard to understand some of your points. Like the attention of black issues on TV. I can't see where American TV is flooded with black plight to be so overwhelming it's an annoyance.
I only see this type of annoyance when it comes to issues of color. I never hear anyone saying "I'm so tired of all these period pieces and those commoners complaining about autocracies" or "I'm real tired about watching shows about the Irish and the scotch trying to gain their independence. Or any other shows or movies that cover European history.
I always find it funny how white people get to say some of the most bigoted, ignorant and racist things and then turn themselves into the victim because someone calls them a racist; which pushing them to become a racist. Shame on me for not understanding their struggle.
I can fully appreciate the critique of America TV and of shows surrounding America's racial history. What I do not appreciate is someone in that critique belittling, degrading or maligning those being discriminated against.
And how the heck do a show in the period of America 1980s- and pior and not have it touch racial issues? Ignore black people forget it happened?
--------------------------------------------
Long quote hidden in spoiler to keep readability.
-Daemonius
Glad to hear it means something to somebody as it is. It wasn't primarily supposed to. Our minds tend to simplify reality over time and, if we let it, beyond recognition. The only good way to stay sharp like that, really, is to be disagreed with often and I'm just hoping to do my part in that.
The fact that this gentleman referred to black people as "Blackies" in a later post speaks to his character and his true sentiments towards black people. His comments were nothing more than racism attempting to masquerade as civil discourse.
Please let me try to do the same for you.
There are many forms of racism. The type you see in the US is one that is rooted in history and reinforced by ignorance and tribalism.
The type of racism you see with us Europeans, while still racism, works somewhat differently. It is often purely made of ignorance. Most countries here are still predominantly white and the notable minorities that do exist usually have both an actual cultural background (point of origin, tradition, etc.) and are also mostly somewhat recent - likely from the 20th century. As a black man you likely would experience racism here, but merely as other, not as black.
That being said, a lot of people here do not fully understand how bad it can still be in the US sometimes, or at least don't care about something happening all the way over there. The latter, maybe also the former, seemed to be the case here.
What people here do see is that this particular issue is getting a lot of attention. Attention is maybe the most primal of currencies - you can even pay infants with it. It can often matter to people where it goes.
Since most grade A television is still made in the US and later exported, we get a lot of content that pays attention to your primary issues. This can get very annoying for some of us. Giving it even more attention can prompt a strong emotional reaction in some.
The issue at hand there is not racism per se - it's mostly just that calling this out and seeming like a racist is often easier than playing along and seeing more and more of it. After a while, it can become a habit.
If the habit doesn't get a better outlet, it can lead to identifying with actual racists more and more over time. If people keep calling you a racist, you might eventually start being proud of it.
Again, it works somewhat differently in the US. Many of the latter concepts are often still involved, though.
Discourse does not need to be civil. It only needs to continue. This whole societal system only works if we all keep working towards a point where everyone can see everyone else's point of view, even if it seems futile.
Come on, you know there's always a need to make fun of Americans. :)